1 00:00:22,190 --> 00:00:09,100 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:24,720 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:28,210 episode number 308 for the 14th of sep 4 00:00:34,050 --> 00:00:30,730 tember 2014 Richard Saunders here with 5 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:34,060 you from South Australia the wonderful 6 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:36,130 state of South Australia and I met 7 00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:39,460 Malala Motorsport Park you can probably 8 00:00:42,990 --> 00:00:41,440 hear some of the cars zooming around the 9 00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:43,000 track in the background I'm here today 10 00:00:48,750 --> 00:00:45,430 as I've been for last few days to do 11 00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:48,760 some work in car video type work which I 12 00:00:55,259 --> 00:00:51,520 do from time to time and that's a lot of 13 00:00:59,610 --> 00:00:55,269 fun I've snuck away found a moment to 14 00:01:01,320 --> 00:00:59,620 sneak our snuck a snack away to record 15 00:01:03,450 --> 00:01:01,330 the introduction for the skeptic zone 16 00:01:05,220 --> 00:01:03,460 well what's coming up this week we're 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:05,230 going to kick off with them an 18 00:01:11,630 --> 00:01:09,130 interesting report written by Mick vague 19 00:01:14,940 --> 00:01:11,640 which appeared on the conversation calm 20 00:01:17,550 --> 00:01:14,950 inspired one possibly inspired by the 21 00:01:20,610 --> 00:01:17,560 latest issue of the skeptic magazine the 22 00:01:23,460 --> 00:01:20,620 journal from Australian skeptics and in 23 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:23,470 the latest issue there's an report and 24 00:01:32,010 --> 00:01:28,320 item about pharmacies pharmacies and 25 00:01:35,100 --> 00:01:32,020 their unfortunate habit in this country 26 00:01:38,940 --> 00:01:35,110 at least of selling what we consider to 27 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:38,950 be quackery homeopathy iridology ear 28 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:41,890 candles and that sort of thing a very 29 00:01:45,679 --> 00:01:43,990 interesting piece by macfag coming up at 30 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:45,689 the top of the show followed by 31 00:01:50,459 --> 00:01:48,490 something I think may have appeared on 32 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:50,469 the skeptic zone before over the years 33 00:01:54,330 --> 00:01:52,810 I'll have to check into that this is an 34 00:01:56,249 --> 00:01:54,340 open letter to the pharmacies of 35 00:01:59,450 --> 00:01:56,259 Australia that I wrote some years ago on 36 00:02:02,760 --> 00:01:59,460 behalf of Australian skeptics basically 37 00:02:05,370 --> 00:02:02,770 appealing to them to stop selling ear 38 00:02:08,999 --> 00:02:05,380 candles especially and other quackery 39 00:02:11,010 --> 00:02:09,009 but especially ear candles now good old 40 00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:11,020 ear candles I think the very first dr. 41 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:13,270 Richie reports on the skeptic zone six 42 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:16,570 years ago was about ear candles of all 43 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:18,610 the bizarre quackery I've seen over the 44 00:02:24,030 --> 00:02:20,770 years folks sticking a candle in your 45 00:02:28,350 --> 00:02:24,040 ear and lighting the other end hello 46 00:02:30,570 --> 00:02:28,360 there's a fly I think of your google Mel 47 00:02:32,850 --> 00:02:30,580 allow you'll discover it sir 48 00:02:34,410 --> 00:02:32,860 a very interesting location near 49 00:02:36,270 --> 00:02:34,420 Adelaide in South Australia but I've 50 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:36,280 been told the Flyers here can get pretty 51 00:02:43,140 --> 00:02:40,480 bad pretty bad anyway back to the show 52 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:43,150 after that it's evidence please with Joe 53 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:45,910 alabaster and Joe is going to be looking 54 00:02:53,910 --> 00:02:50,490 into our vitamin K and why some people 55 00:02:55,980 --> 00:02:53,920 don't take advantage of vitamin K I 56 00:02:57,540 --> 00:02:55,990 don't know very much about vitamin K 57 00:02:59,820 --> 00:02:57,550 myself so I'll be very interested to 58 00:03:03,030 --> 00:02:59,830 hear Joe alabaster's evidence please 59 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:03,040 this week after that it's a week in 60 00:03:07,350 --> 00:03:04,450 science from our friends at the Royal 61 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:07,360 Institution of Australia that's only 62 00:03:11,699 --> 00:03:09,190 about an hour away from where i am in 63 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:11,709 right now a Mel Allen I haven't got time 64 00:03:22,230 --> 00:03:16,930 to visit ah oh well shall we fly out up 65 00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:22,240 damn fly there we go and i'm using a car 66 00:03:26,790 --> 00:03:24,880 as a recording booth today and then ran 67 00:03:28,770 --> 00:03:26,800 off the show it's Maynard's spooky 68 00:03:30,150 --> 00:03:28,780 action more Maynard from skeptics in the 69 00:03:31,790 --> 00:03:30,160 pub the other week here in Sydney 70 00:03:34,650 --> 00:03:31,800 Maynard catches up with our dear friend 71 00:03:36,509 --> 00:03:34,660 Johanne been amoo Joe and Ben amoo who 72 00:03:39,150 --> 00:03:36,519 did some reports on the skeptic zone a 73 00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:39,160 little while ago joannes off to live in 74 00:03:44,550 --> 00:03:42,070 Melbourne we wish her every luck every 75 00:03:48,090 --> 00:03:44,560 success of course but he'll be chatting 76 00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:48,100 to Joe about her opinions on Chinese 77 00:03:52,979 --> 00:03:50,260 medicine and other things and then a 78 00:03:56,009 --> 00:03:52,989 chat with an old friend of mine Gary 79 00:03:57,420 --> 00:03:56,019 Dalrymple who runs a free Connor free 80 00:04:00,240 --> 00:03:57,430 sort of science fiction fantasy 81 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:00,250 convention for writers and authors in 82 00:04:05,729 --> 00:04:02,970 Sydney and more information about that 83 00:04:07,530 --> 00:04:05,739 so a little bit of an abbreviated show 84 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:07,540 this week because I'm on the road I'm 85 00:04:12,509 --> 00:04:09,910 pretty busy making sure all the racing 86 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:12,519 cars have cameras whirring away inside 87 00:04:18,539 --> 00:04:16,510 getting some work done so while I have a 88 00:04:20,940 --> 00:04:18,549 look around me now maybe have a nice 89 00:04:50,550 --> 00:04:20,950 cool drink of water because it's a hot 90 00:04:57,970 --> 00:04:54,070 as published on the conversation calm on 91 00:05:01,720 --> 00:04:57,980 the top of September 2014 by Michael bag 92 00:05:04,330 --> 00:05:01,730 our pharmacists as trustworthy as they'd 93 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:04,340 like us to believe pharmacists are 94 00:05:08,590 --> 00:05:06,530 continuously held up as among the most 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:08,600 respected and trusted of professionals 96 00:05:12,580 --> 00:05:10,970 they fulfill an important role within 97 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:12,590 the Health Professions of being the 98 00:05:18,070 --> 00:05:15,530 gatekeepers of medication dispensing and 99 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:18,080 the link between the community and their 100 00:05:22,990 --> 00:05:21,170 medication use for more than 100 years 101 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:23,000 there has been a very clear and ethical 102 00:05:27,550 --> 00:05:25,070 distinction between doctors who 103 00:05:30,210 --> 00:05:27,560 prescribe medications and pharmacists 104 00:05:32,590 --> 00:05:30,220 who sell them that way the argument goes 105 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:32,600 doctors have no direct financial 106 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:34,930 interest in the drugs they prescribe and 107 00:05:39,070 --> 00:05:37,010 pharmacists have no direct financial 108 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:39,080 interest in recommending any of the 109 00:05:43,990 --> 00:05:41,330 drugs on their shelves directly to 110 00:05:46,990 --> 00:05:44,000 patients so far so good there has been a 111 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:47,000 bit of a role creep over the years with 112 00:05:51,670 --> 00:05:49,130 calls from some doctors to be allowed to 113 00:05:54,340 --> 00:05:51,680 sell their own concoctions directly to 114 00:05:57,130 --> 00:05:54,350 their patients as well as a much more 115 00:05:59,680 --> 00:05:57,140 concerted push by pharmacists to play a 116 00:06:01,360 --> 00:05:59,690 bigger role in health care including 117 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:01,370 providing immunizations and health 118 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:03,770 checks direct to consumers naturally 119 00:06:09,010 --> 00:06:06,380 this is of concern to GPS as such 120 00:06:11,650 --> 00:06:09,020 proposals have the potential to fragment 121 00:06:13,330 --> 00:06:11,660 primary health care even further not to 122 00:06:15,460 --> 00:06:13,340 mention taking the critical role of 123 00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:15,470 diagnosis putting it into the hands of 124 00:06:20,020 --> 00:06:17,110 those who are under qualified 125 00:06:22,510 --> 00:06:20,030 underinsured and under supported to 126 00:06:24,610 --> 00:06:22,520 handle it what concerns me particularly 127 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:24,620 is not so much that these health checks 128 00:06:29,620 --> 00:06:27,710 will take away work from GPS if anything 129 00:06:32,290 --> 00:06:29,630 I suspect that will increase GPS 130 00:06:34,530 --> 00:06:32,300 workloads sorting out the advice already 131 00:06:37,270 --> 00:06:34,540 given to patients by one of EGP 132 00:06:40,060 --> 00:06:37,280 enthusiasts like pharmacists and their 133 00:06:42,070 --> 00:06:40,070 associated naturopaths this month 134 00:06:44,740 --> 00:06:42,080 skeptic magazine from Australian 135 00:06:47,050 --> 00:06:44,750 skeptics highlights the problems quite 136 00:06:48,790 --> 00:06:47,060 well I think it's time for pharmacists 137 00:06:51,219 --> 00:06:48,800 to decide if they want to keep the trust 138 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:51,229 placed in them by the community to give 139 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:53,810 sound advice if they want to remain at 140 00:06:58,629 --> 00:06:56,090 trusted source of advice they need to 141 00:07:01,720 --> 00:06:58,639 lift their game and get all the ear 142 00:07:04,420 --> 00:07:01,730 candles homeopathy magnets herbs and 143 00:07:06,790 --> 00:07:04,430 supplements out of their shops along 144 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:06,800 with the euro-dollar jests and their 145 00:07:11,740 --> 00:07:09,050 other fairground quote health 146 00:07:13,750 --> 00:07:11,750 professionals end quote in short they 147 00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:13,760 need to start acting like they deserve 148 00:07:18,430 --> 00:07:16,550 the trust and respect that has accorded 149 00:07:20,890 --> 00:07:18,440 them we have heard nothing from the 150 00:07:23,890 --> 00:07:20,900 training and CPD requirements for 151 00:07:26,500 --> 00:07:23,900 pharmacists who want to diagnose and 152 00:07:28,870 --> 00:07:26,510 treat patients let alone how they will 153 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:28,880 be insured I would want to see all this 154 00:07:34,450 --> 00:07:32,150 detail before I let my crew p baby or 155 00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:34,460 breathless grandmother within a bulls 156 00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:37,100 roar of a pharmacist diagnosis skills 157 00:07:41,980 --> 00:07:39,470 the protectionism involved in a business 158 00:07:44,350 --> 00:07:41,990 of running pharmacies is breathtaking 159 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:44,360 like dentists only pharmacists are 160 00:07:49,330 --> 00:07:46,250 legally allowed to profit from running 161 00:07:52,060 --> 00:07:49,340 pharmacies and they have defended this 162 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:52,070 with all the bitterness and vitriol you 163 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:54,650 might expect from a group who know they 164 00:07:58,630 --> 00:07:56,330 are on to a good thing Health Minister 165 00:08:01,000 --> 00:07:58,640 Peter Dutton seems all for the 166 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:01,010 pharmacists ambitions and has been on 167 00:08:06,430 --> 00:08:04,010 the medical trail vowing not to whine 168 00:08:08,290 --> 00:08:06,440 back they're protected status so it 169 00:08:11,050 --> 00:08:08,300 seems the pharmacist will have all they 170 00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:11,060 want I wonder if they deserve it I hope 171 00:08:15,460 --> 00:08:13,039 they take the opportunity to lift their 172 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:15,470 game as a profession and use their 173 00:08:20,770 --> 00:08:18,050 protected status to raise standards not 174 00:08:23,230 --> 00:08:20,780 profits a good place to start would be 175 00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:23,240 to stop advertising and selling shonky 176 00:08:27,219 --> 00:08:25,280 devices and products that would be 177 00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:27,229 considered fraudulent in any other 178 00:08:36,410 --> 00:08:30,110 context too hard then get out of the 179 00:08:42,620 --> 00:08:39,630 from Australian skeptics an open letter 180 00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:42,630 to the pharmacist of Australia 181 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:44,590 Australians trust pharmacies and 182 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:47,170 chemists shops as pharmacists you play 183 00:08:51,780 --> 00:08:49,570 an important role in the health of the 184 00:08:54,390 --> 00:08:51,790 Australian public by functioning as a 185 00:08:57,180 --> 00:08:54,400 conduit between doctors and prescription 186 00:08:59,610 --> 00:08:57,190 or pharmaceutical drugs you also have a 187 00:09:01,560 --> 00:08:59,620 respected role as a first resource for 188 00:09:03,870 --> 00:09:01,570 medical advice for many people in our 189 00:09:07,590 --> 00:09:03,880 community we are all familiar with the 190 00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:07,600 slogan ask your pharmacist when we asked 191 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:10,120 our pharmacist what kind of answers do 192 00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:12,520 we want not quite products like ear 193 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:14,800 candles that do nothing except pose a 194 00:09:20,550 --> 00:09:17,680 health hazard we now ask our Australian 195 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:20,560 pharmacist what standards should you set 196 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:22,690 for yourselves you sell a growing number 197 00:09:26,610 --> 00:09:24,490 of products for which there is very 198 00:09:29,460 --> 00:09:26,620 little or no scientific evidence of 199 00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:29,470 efficacy calling them quote alternative 200 00:09:34,290 --> 00:09:31,950 end quote does not make them work 201 00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:34,300 examples include homeopathic 202 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:36,460 preparations magnetic pain relief 203 00:09:43,530 --> 00:09:39,610 devices detox programs dodgy weight loss 204 00:09:46,260 --> 00:09:43,540 products and ear candles such products 205 00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:46,270 commonly appear in the quote natural 206 00:09:50,250 --> 00:09:48,310 medicine and quote section of pharmacies 207 00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:50,260 but as sometimes displayed alongside 208 00:09:55,830 --> 00:09:52,750 real medicines whose benefits are 209 00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:55,840 scientifically proven ear candles are of 210 00:10:00,450 --> 00:09:58,330 particular concern there are reports of 211 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:00,460 serious injuries from them including 212 00:10:05,970 --> 00:10:03,010 temporary hearing loss burns ear canals 213 00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:05,980 blocked by dripping wax and punctured 214 00:10:10,980 --> 00:10:08,710 eardrums Health Canada has banned them 215 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:10,990 in Canada even the first professor of 216 00:10:15,450 --> 00:10:12,700 alternative and complementary medicine 217 00:10:17,870 --> 00:10:15,460 at Exeter University at said Ernst calls 218 00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:17,880 for them to be banned despite this many 219 00:10:22,290 --> 00:10:20,260 Australian pharmacies are selling them 220 00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:22,300 what next we start selling cigarettes 221 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:25,150 like supermarkets who you do not want to 222 00:10:28,950 --> 00:10:26,490 be allowed to sell pharmaceuticals 223 00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:28,960 because they do not have qualified staff 224 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:31,240 what standards do you set for yourself 225 00:10:36,810 --> 00:10:34,450 and your staff we see a growing trend of 226 00:10:39,270 --> 00:10:36,820 so-called quote practitioners end quote 227 00:10:42,420 --> 00:10:39,280 with little or no scientific training 228 00:10:45,180 --> 00:10:42,430 being brought in as quote consultants 229 00:10:48,570 --> 00:10:45,190 including iridology homeopaths and 230 00:10:50,670 --> 00:10:48,580 naturopaths iridology is a discredited 231 00:10:53,220 --> 00:10:50,680 way of diagnosing the dysfunction of 232 00:10:55,860 --> 00:10:53,230 internal organs via markings on the iris 233 00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:55,870 there is no evidence that it works but 234 00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:57,760 some pharmacies promote the fact that 235 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:00,640 customers can get quote readings and 236 00:11:06,420 --> 00:11:03,730 quote in their stores your customers 237 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:06,430 rely on you and anyone in a professional 238 00:11:11,610 --> 00:11:08,290 capacity within your store to provide 239 00:11:13,199 --> 00:11:11,620 sound medical advice and products we 240 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:13,209 fear in some cases they are receiving 241 00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:15,790 what amounts to little more than magical 242 00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:18,240 sugar pills and bad health advice 243 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:20,950 pharmacies need to make a profit but 244 00:11:25,889 --> 00:11:22,810 this should not be done through quack 245 00:11:27,930 --> 00:11:25,899 products and bad advice to regain the 246 00:11:29,790 --> 00:11:27,940 status of pharmacy should have a place 247 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:29,800 to get good sound advice and effective 248 00:11:34,170 --> 00:11:31,510 medicine supported by science and 249 00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:34,180 clinical evidence we implore our 250 00:11:41,070 --> 00:11:36,880 pharmacies to stick to worthy products 251 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:41,080 sold by knowledgeable staff Australian 252 00:11:57,940 --> 00:11:55,690 did you see that UFO sighting that made 253 00:11:59,650 --> 00:11:57,950 the news what did that latest study 254 00:12:02,080 --> 00:11:59,660 about alternative treatments really say 255 00:12:05,020 --> 00:12:02,090 is this photo making the rounds real or 256 00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:05,030 hoax doubtful news is a unique website 257 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:06,920 featuring news about pseudoscience the 258 00:12:10,770 --> 00:12:09,050 paranormal anomalies and questionable 259 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:10,780 claims framed with the skeptical view 260 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:13,730 come visit doubtful newscom every day 261 00:12:19,210 --> 00:12:15,490 for news about cryptozoology 262 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:19,220 conspiracies shams scams and more follow 263 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:22,130 us on twitter at doubtful news critical 264 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:23,690 thinking is essential in assessing 265 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:25,970 today's news duffel news helps you 266 00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:40,210 what we want is some more evidence piece 267 00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,660 hello this is Joe alabasta preliminary 268 00:12:59,180 --> 00:12:57,040 research presented this year's Council 269 00:13:01,920 --> 00:12:59,190 of State and territorial epidemiologists 270 00:13:04,050 --> 00:13:01,930 conference in the US which looked at the 271 00:13:06,210 --> 00:13:04,060 rising issue of parents refusing vitamin 272 00:13:08,699 --> 00:13:06,220 K shots for their newborns has shown the 273 00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:08,709 correlation between vitamin K refusal 274 00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:12,880 and vaccine refusal vitamin K is needed 275 00:13:16,769 --> 00:13:15,040 by humans to allow complete synthesis of 276 00:13:19,470 --> 00:13:16,779 proteins that we use for blood 277 00:13:21,389 --> 00:13:19,480 coagulation without it we're at risk of 278 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:21,399 blood clotting issues ranging from 279 00:13:26,670 --> 00:13:23,050 bruising to severe bleeding and 280 00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,680 hemorrhagic disease healthy adults and 281 00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:28,240 older children are able to maintain 282 00:13:33,449 --> 00:13:31,120 adequate vitamin K levels in part via 283 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:33,459 their diet but predominantly because 284 00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:35,770 vitamin K is produced by bacteria in the 285 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:38,950 gut newborn babies however are born with 286 00:13:43,019 --> 00:13:41,649 a sterile gut the gut biome is not yet 287 00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:43,029 in place to assist in maintaining 288 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:46,480 vitamin K levels vitamin K is not 289 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:47,980 sufficiently present in the baby's 290 00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:50,290 system as it has trouble passing through 291 00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,140 the placenta in utero as such babies 292 00:13:58,800 --> 00:13:55,120 have very little vitamin K in their 293 00:14:01,050 --> 00:13:58,810 bodies at Birth there is very little 294 00:14:02,940 --> 00:14:01,060 vitamin K and breast milk and it can 295 00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:02,950 take breastfed babies several weeks to 296 00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:05,230 establish and maintain a gut biome which 297 00:14:10,829 --> 00:14:08,740 produces sufficient vitamin K modern 298 00:14:13,350 --> 00:14:10,839 baby formulas are fortified with vitamin 299 00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:13,360 K so formula fed babies can be quicker 300 00:14:18,630 --> 00:14:16,120 to establish their vitamin K levels all 301 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:18,640 babies however can have the absorption 302 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:20,650 of vitamin K and the development of a 303 00:14:25,410 --> 00:14:23,170 balanced gut biome interrupted if they 304 00:14:27,930 --> 00:14:25,420 experience digestive disturbances such 305 00:14:30,810 --> 00:14:27,940 as vomiting or diarrhea if they require 306 00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:30,820 antibiotics or if they have affected by 307 00:14:36,750 --> 00:14:34,750 liver disease oh point two five to one 308 00:14:38,610 --> 00:14:36,760 point seven percent of babies who do not 309 00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:38,620 receive a vitamin K shot at birth 310 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:40,800 develop classic vitamin K deficiency 311 00:14:46,590 --> 00:14:43,510 bleeding which is fortunately rarely 312 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:46,600 fatal late vitamin K deficiency bleeding 313 00:14:51,420 --> 00:14:49,690 is rarer affecting 427 of every hundred 314 00:14:53,389 --> 00:14:51,430 thousand infants who haven't had the 315 00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:53,399 shot but much more dangerous 316 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:55,540 hemorrhaging nearly always occurs in 317 00:15:00,030 --> 00:14:57,850 babies brains around twenty percent of 318 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:00,040 affected babies die and fifty percent 319 00:15:05,329 --> 00:15:01,529 sustain long-term 320 00:15:07,460 --> 00:15:05,339 image as such or newborn babies in 321 00:15:10,179 --> 00:15:07,470 Australia are offered a vitamin K shot 322 00:15:12,559 --> 00:15:10,189 at birth as a prophylactic measure an 323 00:15:15,319 --> 00:15:12,569 alternative to injection is available 324 00:15:18,439 --> 00:15:15,329 oral vitamin K drops administered three 325 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:18,449 times once at birth once at three to 326 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:20,970 five days of age and once again at four 327 00:15:25,850 --> 00:15:23,850 weeks of age due to the sometimes 328 00:15:28,699 --> 00:15:25,860 fluctuating efficacy of baby's digestive 329 00:15:30,410 --> 00:15:28,709 systems the potential for missed doses 330 00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:30,420 and the longer time it takes for all 331 00:15:34,549 --> 00:15:32,430 doses to be complete the oral 332 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:34,559 administration of vitamin K is less 333 00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:37,170 reliable than injection and is not 334 00:15:41,179 --> 00:15:38,639 recommended for babies who have 335 00:15:44,809 --> 00:15:41,189 digestive issues are premature or are 336 00:15:47,179 --> 00:15:44,819 unwell there are no documented adverse 337 00:15:50,749 --> 00:15:47,189 effects resulting from vitamin K shots 338 00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:50,759 however in the early 1990s two studies 339 00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:52,980 suggested a causal link between vitamin 340 00:15:57,949 --> 00:15:56,160 K shots and childhood cancers these 341 00:15:59,840 --> 00:15:57,959 studies were discredited due to poor 342 00:16:02,059 --> 00:15:59,850 methods and small sample sizes and 343 00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:02,069 subsequent reviews of firm no similar 344 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:04,620 links unfortunately the discredited 345 00:16:09,650 --> 00:16:06,720 studies of hung around gaining credence 346 00:16:12,049 --> 00:16:09,660 in certain circles much like Wakefield's 347 00:16:17,329 --> 00:16:12,059 discredited paper linking autism to the 348 00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:17,339 MMR vaccine onto the news rates of 349 00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:19,350 vitamin K shot refusal have been rising 350 00:16:24,019 --> 00:16:21,870 in the US according to a report in the 351 00:16:26,540 --> 00:16:24,029 journal Pediatrics the rate of refusal 352 00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:26,550 has almost doubled in Alberta from point 353 00:16:33,439 --> 00:16:29,759 to one percent in 2006 20 point three 354 00:16:35,329 --> 00:16:33,449 nine percent in 2012 prompted by the 355 00:16:36,819 --> 00:16:35,339 death of four babies in Nashville who 356 00:16:39,049 --> 00:16:36,829 developed a late vitamin K deficiency 357 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:39,059 bleeding after their parents declined 358 00:16:43,309 --> 00:16:41,370 the shot a team of researchers looked 359 00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:43,319 into vitamin K refusal rates and 360 00:16:48,019 --> 00:16:45,870 parental attitudes presenting their 361 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:48,029 preliminary findings at the Council of 362 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:49,490 State and territorial epidemiologists 363 00:16:55,939 --> 00:16:52,050 conference in nashville tennessee last 364 00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:55,949 june of babies born in 2013 at a 365 00:17:03,259 --> 00:16:58,199 Nashville Children's Hospital the rate 366 00:17:05,329 --> 00:17:03,269 of shot refusal was 2.7% the team also 367 00:17:07,850 --> 00:17:05,339 looked at the rate of refusal across 368 00:17:10,189 --> 00:17:07,860 five freestanding birthing centers which 369 00:17:13,949 --> 00:17:10,199 was substantially higher at twenty-eight 370 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:13,959 percent parent 371 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:15,850 who refused the vitamin K shop for the 372 00:17:20,159 --> 00:17:17,770 newborns were invited to participate in 373 00:17:22,980 --> 00:17:20,169 a survey on their attitudes towards the 374 00:17:26,159 --> 00:17:22,990 vitamin K shot forty-seven percent of 375 00:17:28,860 --> 00:17:26,169 these parents responded the leading 376 00:17:30,659 --> 00:17:28,870 reasons given for refusal were a desire 377 00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:30,669 for a natural birthing process and 378 00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:34,590 relieving prophylaxis was unnecessary of 379 00:17:40,019 --> 00:17:37,720 the survey respondents sixty-five 380 00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:40,029 percent also refused the hepatitis B 381 00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:43,390 vaccine and erythromycin I augment which 382 00:17:47,370 --> 00:17:45,190 has routinely given to newborns in the 383 00:17:51,299 --> 00:17:47,380 US as a preventive measure against I 384 00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:51,309 infections mothers who refused the shot 385 00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:53,350 will more likely to have epidural free 386 00:17:58,500 --> 00:17:55,750 vaginal deliveries and babies delivered 387 00:18:00,450 --> 00:17:58,510 by midwives were eight times less likely 388 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:00,460 to receive vitamin K than babies 389 00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:03,370 delivered by doctors here's an 390 00:18:08,010 --> 00:18:05,860 interesting statistic the children of 391 00:18:10,769 --> 00:18:08,020 parents who declined the vitamin K shot 392 00:18:13,409 --> 00:18:10,779 a 15 times more likely than other 393 00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,419 children to have received no vaccines by 394 00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:16,240 the time they're 15 months old this is 395 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:17,470 the first time that a link has been 396 00:18:23,279 --> 00:18:19,809 demonstrated between vaccine refusal and 397 00:18:26,430 --> 00:18:23,289 vitamin K refusal from the preliminary 398 00:18:28,649 --> 00:18:26,440 findings quote this group of parents 399 00:18:30,510 --> 00:18:28,659 often shares a particular worldview of 400 00:18:32,610 --> 00:18:30,520 health that includes a preference for 401 00:18:34,620 --> 00:18:32,620 natural health remedies and questions 402 00:18:36,690 --> 00:18:34,630 the standard recommended practices of 403 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:36,700 established medical authorities and 404 00:18:42,930 --> 00:18:40,690 quote there is a crucial difference 405 00:18:46,049 --> 00:18:42,940 between vaccine refusal and vitamin K 406 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:46,059 refusal however a parent who initially 407 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:48,730 refuses vaccines then has a change of 408 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:50,710 mind is able to put their child on a 409 00:18:55,769 --> 00:18:52,690 catch-up schedule providing them with 410 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:55,779 protection for the future unfortunately 411 00:18:59,940 --> 00:18:57,610 though there is no catch up schedule for 412 00:19:02,190 --> 00:18:59,950 vitamin K shots given the small window 413 00:19:04,350 --> 00:19:02,200 of time for bleeding risk vitamin K 414 00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:04,360 refusal presents a very immediate danger 415 00:19:30,690 --> 00:19:29,070 hey this is Jay novella from the 416 00:19:32,610 --> 00:19:30,700 skeptics guide to the universe podcast 417 00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:32,620 did you know that there are thousands of 418 00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:34,480 skeptical reports interviews and 419 00:19:38,910 --> 00:19:36,190 investigations going back to nineteen 420 00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:38,920 eighty one free to download just visit w 421 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:42,160 WC empathic CoA you click the 422 00:19:46,050 --> 00:19:44,080 publications link and enjoy almost every 423 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:46,060 back issue of the skeptic the journal 424 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:48,010 from Australian skeptics you can also 425 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:49,570 subscribe online and get the latest 426 00:19:53,850 --> 00:19:51,850 digital or hard copy of this the world's 427 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:53,860 second oldest skeptical magazine that's 428 00:20:10,920 --> 00:19:57,730 ww skeptics com au or just Google 429 00:20:13,020 --> 00:20:10,930 Australian skeptics welcome to a week in 430 00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:13,030 science from rars bringing you the 431 00:20:16,410 --> 00:20:15,070 science you need to know the Ebola 432 00:20:18,450 --> 00:20:16,420 outbreaks you've seen in the movies 433 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:18,460 might scare the daylights out of you but 434 00:20:29,890 --> 00:20:20,770 how realistic are they what is a bowler 435 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:32,270 the proper name for the disease is a 436 00:20:37,610 --> 00:20:34,650 bowler hemorrhagic fever there are five 437 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:37,620 strains of the disease the 2014 outbreak 438 00:20:41,450 --> 00:20:39,570 in West Africa is there's a year strain 439 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:41,460 which is the most virulent form and 440 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:43,890 comes from bats it is transmitted by 441 00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:45,510 direct contact with infected bodily 442 00:20:51,230 --> 00:20:48,360 fluids such as blood sweat tears saliva 443 00:20:52,790 --> 00:20:51,240 or vomit it can even be carried in semen 444 00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,800 up to seven weeks after the infection 445 00:20:57,890 --> 00:20:55,200 has cleared fatality rates of Ebola in 446 00:20:59,870 --> 00:20:57,900 humans can be as high as 90 percent it 447 00:21:01,910 --> 00:20:59,880 normally causes death by lowering blood 448 00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:01,920 pressure causing organs to fail and 449 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:03,960 weakening the immune system so while 450 00:21:08,030 --> 00:21:05,850 there is currently no proven vaccine or 451 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:08,040 cure death rates can be reduced by 452 00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:09,930 treating the dehydration and using 453 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:11,430 antibiotics to treat secondary 454 00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:15,570 infections symptoms generally appear in 455 00:21:20,030 --> 00:21:17,880 eight to ten days after infection but in 456 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:20,040 some cases can take up to three weeks to 457 00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:21,690 appear meaning someone could have 458 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:23,400 infected lots of people before they even 459 00:21:28,130 --> 00:21:26,010 know they have Ebola even then the early 460 00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:28,140 symptoms can seem innocuous such as red 461 00:21:32,510 --> 00:21:30,600 eyes or a rash symptoms developed to 462 00:21:34,850 --> 00:21:32,520 include a high fever severe headache 463 00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:34,860 muscle pain vomiting diarrhea and 464 00:21:39,530 --> 00:21:36,900 unexplained bleeding or bruising 465 00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,540 outbreaks often occur in warm areas like 466 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:42,000 West Africa this heat can affect health 467 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:44,310 workers focus increasing the chance of 468 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:46,650 accidental infection to combat this they 469 00:21:50,270 --> 00:21:48,570 generally work in pairs and for no more 470 00:21:53,690 --> 00:21:50,280 than 40 minutes at a time in the bio 471 00:21:56,060 --> 00:21:53,700 safety equipment and now for fast facts 472 00:21:59,609 --> 00:21:56,070 about Ebola 473 00:22:01,529 --> 00:21:59,619 Ebola was first identified in 1976 and 474 00:22:03,450 --> 00:22:01,539 it's named after the Ebola river where 475 00:22:05,549 --> 00:22:03,460 one of the first outbreaks was recorded 476 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:05,559 you know in movies where patients spew 477 00:22:09,749 --> 00:22:07,690 blood and bleed to death that's a bit of 478 00:22:12,239 --> 00:22:09,759 a myth Ebola isn't as dramatic as that 479 00:22:14,970 --> 00:22:12,249 and patients mainly just look sick or 480 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:14,980 weak the Ebola virus is transmitted to 481 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:17,080 humans from wild animals particularly 482 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:19,690 fruit bats which are a popular bush meat 483 00:22:24,659 --> 00:22:22,330 and there may be hope for a vaccine with 484 00:22:26,489 --> 00:22:24,669 human trials underway in America that's 485 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:26,499 it for this week in science for more 486 00:22:33,330 --> 00:22:28,690 information on Ebola go to the rous 487 00:22:35,279 --> 00:22:33,340 website I I a USC org a you follow us on 488 00:22:38,129 --> 00:22:35,289 twitter at our iOS and like us on 489 00:22:55,259 --> 00:22:38,139 Facebook I'm Alison Kershaw and we'll 490 00:22:57,269 --> 00:22:55,269 catch you next week rusty Brucie I mean 491 00:22:59,609 --> 00:22:57,279 as a video fear of Islamic law be so 492 00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,619 skeptical Mousavi was not just a shikara 493 00:23:03,539 --> 00:23:01,840 prohodit cars the divinity of austria it 494 00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:03,549 algebra grampa tsuchikage podcast 495 00:23:07,649 --> 00:23:05,679 Petrova hooded garden engine but Gospels 496 00:23:10,019 --> 00:23:07,659 White's escaped aside a cutter bombers 497 00:23:14,999 --> 00:23:10,029 was not initiated st at a wave over 498 00:23:16,409 --> 00:23:15,009 skeptics society Rajguru everybody my 499 00:23:18,509 --> 00:23:16,419 name is carol and i'm the founder of 500 00:23:20,460 --> 00:23:18,519 skeptics society russia come visit us 501 00:23:22,590 --> 00:23:20,470 and masculine our bi-weekly meetings and 502 00:23:24,330 --> 00:23:22,600 also since our weekly podcast which is 503 00:23:26,399 --> 00:23:24,340 called skeptic and the site where you 504 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:26,409 can find all that this skeptics society 505 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:43,659 here's my not spooky action at a 506 00:23:52,460 --> 00:23:50,029 well I'm here would joke but how are you 507 00:23:54,289 --> 00:23:52,470 today I'm very well matter and why do 508 00:23:58,460 --> 00:23:54,299 you think we should still be a skeptic 509 00:24:00,890 --> 00:23:58,470 in 2014 why should we still be one well 510 00:24:02,810 --> 00:24:00,900 I mean what is still to be done well 511 00:24:05,149 --> 00:24:02,820 there's plenty still to be done in fact 512 00:24:07,539 --> 00:24:05,159 there's probably more reason now for us 513 00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:07,549 to be skeptical than ever before because 514 00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,559 you know yeah we've gone through this 515 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:12,720 period where we're now we've got access 516 00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:14,730 to so much information than we ever have 517 00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:16,799 before most of it is completely 518 00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:19,980 unfiltered and unchecked and and humans 519 00:24:24,289 --> 00:24:21,630 have not changed very much we're still 520 00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:24,299 just as flawed silly and gullible as we 521 00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:26,940 ever were and what lures got your goat 522 00:24:32,510 --> 00:24:30,360 recently oh I know it's usually pretty 523 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:32,520 it's a very large Venn diagram a couple 524 00:24:36,860 --> 00:24:35,130 of the choose from look you know I never 525 00:24:39,889 --> 00:24:36,870 stray far away from the alternative 526 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:39,899 medicines but these days I'm quite 527 00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:41,250 interested in traditional Chinese 528 00:24:45,649 --> 00:24:43,980 medicine because I think there's a quite 529 00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:45,659 a lot of risk of harm there when it's 530 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:50,480 not when it's not sort of well well 531 00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:53,490 control and I think also because out of 532 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:55,200 all the alternative medicines it's the 533 00:24:58,370 --> 00:24:56,610 one that has the greatest risk of harm 534 00:25:00,380 --> 00:24:58,380 not just to humans but also to all the 535 00:25:02,029 --> 00:25:00,390 endangered species so can I go down to 536 00:25:06,620 --> 00:25:02,039 Chinatown here and get myself a bit of a 537 00:25:08,389 --> 00:25:06,630 Fidra or not idea i don't know because i 538 00:25:09,529 --> 00:25:08,399 know they banned it in the US but he 539 00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:09,539 says you could probably go down to try 540 00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:10,950 to town to get just about anything you 541 00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,390 want because there was a strong 542 00:25:16,130 --> 00:25:14,159 political lobby with the chinese 543 00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:16,140 medicine that goes along with that and 544 00:25:19,639 --> 00:25:17,640 does that make it a bit more difficult 545 00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:19,649 to put a bit of weight behind it does 546 00:25:24,169 --> 00:25:22,200 very much so because of you know you can 547 00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:24,179 be seen sometimes if you're if you're 548 00:25:27,380 --> 00:25:26,190 criticizing chinese medicine or 549 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:27,390 traditional chinese medicine i should 550 00:25:31,970 --> 00:25:29,250 say you could be seen as being 551 00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:31,980 culturally insensitive but you know 552 00:25:36,980 --> 00:25:34,980 ultimately if you go to China and you 553 00:25:38,419 --> 00:25:36,990 know sorry if you if you if you know the 554 00:25:40,370 --> 00:25:38,429 history of traditional Chinese medicine 555 00:25:42,529 --> 00:25:40,380 you'll know that in fact while people 556 00:25:44,169 --> 00:25:42,539 claim that a scopus this history that 557 00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,179 goes a thousands and thousands of years 558 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:46,799 in fact it was brought back by Mao 559 00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:50,330 Zedong arm and when he was 560 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:54,080 around as a way to provide medical care 561 00:25:57,970 --> 00:25:55,970 for the masses when they couldn't really 562 00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:57,980 afford to provide a good quality 563 00:26:03,490 --> 00:26:00,799 evidence based medicine that we that we 564 00:26:05,470 --> 00:26:03,500 know so you know it's the whole argument 565 00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:05,480 from antiquity it's been around forever 566 00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:08,870 so you know Austin it must be good but 567 00:26:13,659 --> 00:26:11,990 so many of the train eat Chinese 568 00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:13,669 medicines they can buy are adulterated 569 00:26:18,370 --> 00:26:16,100 with heavy metals as I said before 570 00:26:20,529 --> 00:26:18,380 there's a huge risk to endangered 571 00:26:22,930 --> 00:26:20,539 species because there's no there's no 572 00:26:23,950 --> 00:26:22,940 quality control with it so you don't 573 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:23,960 even know how much of the active 574 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:25,730 ingredient is in it if anything exactly 575 00:26:29,529 --> 00:26:28,010 and in fact just last week a report came 576 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:29,539 out and then use about a woman down in 577 00:26:35,169 --> 00:26:32,690 Melbourne who ended up severely ill 578 00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:35,179 after she was prescribed some kind of 579 00:26:40,509 --> 00:26:37,600 traditional Chinese herbal remedy and 580 00:26:42,879 --> 00:26:40,519 she was given instructions on how to use 581 00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:42,889 it it boiled these herbs in her kitchen 582 00:26:49,210 --> 00:26:47,200 drank whatever sort of you know T or 583 00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:49,220 concoction came out of it and she ended 584 00:26:55,289 --> 00:26:51,470 up severely ill in intensive care i 585 00:26:57,279 --> 00:26:55,299 think it was as a result of this and yes 586 00:26:58,509 --> 00:26:57,289 let's just have it be shared out right 587 00:27:00,279 --> 00:26:58,519 now to all the nurses out there 588 00:27:02,620 --> 00:27:00,289 listening that are doing the good job in 589 00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:02,630 in the hospitals in the care places 590 00:27:06,370 --> 00:27:04,880 every day because i made a lot of like 591 00:27:07,899 --> 00:27:06,380 to give them a bit of a shout out get on 592 00:27:09,460 --> 00:27:07,909 yahoo sure yeah shout out to all the 593 00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:09,470 wonderful nurses out there doing an 594 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:11,600 amazing job looking after patients and 595 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:13,610 really what did you find them the most 596 00:27:16,990 --> 00:27:14,809 difficult thing about looking after 597 00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:17,000 patients in a hospital situation is it 598 00:27:20,110 --> 00:27:18,500 that they're cranky there's a 599 00:27:21,850 --> 00:27:20,120 psychological aspect to it or is it the 600 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:21,860 physical aspect with the lifting of them 601 00:27:25,299 --> 00:27:24,110 or the ER key aspect because the things 602 00:27:27,639 --> 00:27:25,309 you have to do what's the most difficult 603 00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:27,649 part of the job for you look I haven't 604 00:27:31,899 --> 00:27:30,200 been on the wards for a long time these 605 00:27:34,750 --> 00:27:31,909 days I've got more medial ivory tower 606 00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:34,760 I've been by over each other yes so I 607 00:27:39,159 --> 00:27:36,830 work in clinical trials these days I'm 608 00:27:42,009 --> 00:27:39,169 behind a desk a lot of the time but 609 00:27:44,830 --> 00:27:42,019 ultimately you know I've always loved 610 00:27:46,659 --> 00:27:44,840 that the privilege I have of being able 611 00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:46,669 to look after patients will look out to 612 00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:47,809 people at a time when they're at the 613 00:27:51,499 --> 00:27:49,440 most vulnerable and 614 00:27:54,529 --> 00:27:51,509 you know something I've always said is 615 00:27:56,419 --> 00:27:54,539 that yeah for example being diagnosed 616 00:27:59,060 --> 00:27:56,429 with cancer doesn't suddenly make you a 617 00:28:00,740 --> 00:27:59,070 nice person so there are times when you 618 00:28:02,830 --> 00:28:00,750 could be looking after someone who has 619 00:28:04,730 --> 00:28:02,840 quite a challenging personality and 620 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:04,740 maybe they're not being particularly 621 00:28:08,419 --> 00:28:06,570 nice to you and I think that one of the 622 00:28:10,369 --> 00:28:08,429 hardest things is you know when you've 623 00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:10,379 got a patient who maybe is being quite 624 00:28:15,789 --> 00:28:13,710 unpleasant is binding the way to kind of 625 00:28:18,139 --> 00:28:15,799 traverse the boundaries between 626 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:18,149 recognizing that they are vulnerable and 627 00:28:23,060 --> 00:28:21,210 that you have a duty of care to them but 628 00:28:25,730 --> 00:28:23,070 at the same time making it clear that 629 00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:25,740 it's not acceptable to treat any any 630 00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:27,929 professional who's looking after you in 631 00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:31,529 a disrespectful way so so that will be 632 00:28:36,529 --> 00:28:33,750 come in handy in debates and during 633 00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:36,539 dating as well it's quite a handy skill 634 00:28:41,629 --> 00:28:39,840 to have well look it enjoy your trip 635 00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:41,639 down to me when you move when we lose 636 00:28:45,769 --> 00:28:43,769 you to South the southerners a couple of 637 00:28:47,389 --> 00:28:45,779 weeks left still you know wrapping 638 00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:47,399 things up in Sydney got a lot of a lot 639 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:48,870 of things to do and people to say 640 00:28:52,820 --> 00:28:51,450 goodbye to but because you're pushing 641 00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:52,830 evidence-based Joe and everyone who 642 00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:54,000 knows you should get a chance to at 643 00:28:56,509 --> 00:28:55,200 least have a drink with it before you go 644 00:28:58,220 --> 00:28:56,519 which means you'll spend the entire time 645 00:29:00,560 --> 00:28:58,230 drunk before you leave which is like 646 00:29:02,090 --> 00:29:00,570 okay yeah but but to tell us what's the 647 00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:02,100 most exciting development in actual 648 00:29:05,330 --> 00:29:04,110 medicine that's on the horizon the 649 00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:05,340 obscene gee that looks pretty good 650 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:06,840 because you read all the books you know 651 00:29:11,299 --> 00:29:08,370 all the big words you can actually 652 00:29:14,659 --> 00:29:11,309 navigate pubmed unlike myself I don't 653 00:29:16,340 --> 00:29:14,669 know the Missy even has been tricked you 654 00:29:21,289 --> 00:29:16,350 know so what do you think's really be I 655 00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:21,299 think that genetics and personalized 656 00:29:25,310 --> 00:29:22,799 medicine is one of the most exciting 657 00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:25,320 things that we have to look forward so 658 00:29:28,590 --> 00:29:26,460 you see we live in the world like 659 00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,600 gattaca do you want get again 660 00:29:33,930 --> 00:29:30,640 that's what you're talking I love that 661 00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:33,940 movie but no um no I think I think the 662 00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:35,230 most exciting thing is just the fact 663 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:37,510 that you know treatments these days are 664 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:39,250 becoming more and more and more targeted 665 00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:41,530 to the individual so as we're getting a 666 00:29:45,030 --> 00:29:42,790 better understanding of the human genome 667 00:29:47,180 --> 00:29:45,040 and of how different treatments can be 668 00:29:51,090 --> 00:29:47,190 tailored towards an individual's genetic 669 00:29:52,770 --> 00:29:51,100 makeup we're able to find incredible 670 00:29:54,210 --> 00:29:52,780 ways to treat diseases that we never 671 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:54,220 would have thought possible we're going 672 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:56,050 to hit a long way to go and the ethics 673 00:29:59,400 --> 00:29:57,850 around it are still you know in terms of 674 00:30:01,800 --> 00:29:59,410 anything to do with genetics and genetic 675 00:30:04,290 --> 00:30:01,810 testing and so on the huge ethical 676 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:04,300 issues to debate and for society to 677 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:06,610 consider but in terms of what we've got 678 00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:07,990 to look for so I think the future looks 679 00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:10,870 very bright sure we won't just gravitate 680 00:30:16,530 --> 00:30:13,150 towards regrowing here and making 681 00:30:19,140 --> 00:30:16,540 penises larger I suspect that that will 682 00:30:21,390 --> 00:30:19,150 definitely happen in fact I'll be 683 00:30:23,310 --> 00:30:21,400 checking my spam inbox when I get home 684 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:23,320 and I'm sure I'll find a few things you 685 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:26,110 enjoy your trip and pleated dunk over to 686 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:27,970 the dark side of sport we mustn't lose 687 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:31,570 you to spawn it'll never happen never I 688 00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:35,470 tried I can't do it well I'm here with a 689 00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:37,300 real troublemaker a real troublemaker a 690 00:30:42,270 --> 00:30:39,070 guy who you two of the world causing 691 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:42,280 trouble who we got sir I'm Gary and I'm 692 00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:44,410 here I guess to try and tell people 693 00:30:49,470 --> 00:30:46,500 about a free science fiction convention 694 00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:49,480 which is taking place over the weekend 695 00:30:55,530 --> 00:30:53,320 of december five six and seven at a 696 00:30:58,020 --> 00:30:55,540 place called clinton park but why a 697 00:30:59,220 --> 00:30:58,030 science fiction festival at this place 698 00:31:02,300 --> 00:30:59,230 and what are you going to do is going to 699 00:31:05,210 --> 00:31:02,310 be a bunch of book will shatner be there 700 00:31:08,370 --> 00:31:05,220 he's not actually answering my emails ah 701 00:31:09,650 --> 00:31:08,380 bastard but he's possibly on an away 702 00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:09,660 mission somewhere doing something 703 00:31:15,450 --> 00:31:12,310 unbelievable if you catch his program on 704 00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:15,460 SPS at one thirty in the morning but why 705 00:31:18,660 --> 00:31:16,870 don't we get back to the freaking big 706 00:31:20,130 --> 00:31:18,670 yeah let's get back to this sort of 707 00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:20,140 science fiction here yes this sort of 708 00:31:23,820 --> 00:31:21,430 science fiction this is real science 709 00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:23,830 fiction now what we're going to be doing 710 00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:26,590 is in previous years I've run free 711 00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:29,230 concert bankstown North Sydney the 712 00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:31,630 Australian Museum the new south wales 713 00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:34,390 institute of technology but what we're 714 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:36,430 likely to have is about a dozen science 715 00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:38,890 fiction and fantasy writers who will be 716 00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:41,120 on panels i'll be discussing there were 717 00:31:45,549 --> 00:31:43,460 and the progress of science fiction and 718 00:31:49,299 --> 00:31:45,559 fantasy publishing generally there will 719 00:31:52,030 --> 00:31:49,309 be a number of audience interest events 720 00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:52,040 which I call whiteboard as democracy 721 00:31:56,049 --> 00:31:54,440 where we'll have a whiteboard and you 722 00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:56,059 can write up a topic and depending on 723 00:31:59,920 --> 00:31:58,130 how many people sort of ticket circle it 724 00:32:01,690 --> 00:31:59,930 or whatever there's a possibility that 725 00:32:03,490 --> 00:32:01,700 that will be one of the afternoon topics 726 00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:03,500 on the Saturday or the Sunday this will 727 00:32:08,110 --> 00:32:06,320 not be a magnet for loonies will it well 728 00:32:09,940 --> 00:32:08,120 we don't get lunatic Lampton park they 729 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:09,950 generally sort of get let's not bury 730 00:32:13,510 --> 00:32:11,930 north so this strikes me is something 731 00:32:15,850 --> 00:32:13,520 that would be good as your other ones 732 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:15,860 have been for an up-and-coming author or 733 00:32:19,030 --> 00:32:17,690 someone who's may be experiencing even a 734 00:32:21,070 --> 00:32:19,040 bit of writer's block at the time being 735 00:32:22,990 --> 00:32:21,080 particularly because one of the features 736 00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:23,000 of this event will be a short story 737 00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:25,040 writing competition that will not only 738 00:32:31,030 --> 00:32:27,679 be judged by that whoever attends the 739 00:32:32,919 --> 00:32:31,040 freak on it will also provide anyone who 740 00:32:35,650 --> 00:32:32,929 cares to enter it with an opportunity 741 00:32:37,270 --> 00:32:35,660 for a bit of direct feedback and they 742 00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:37,280 can see what all the other stories are 743 00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:39,590 like they can possibly stand next to 744 00:32:42,940 --> 00:32:41,120 their story and sort of make veiled 745 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:42,950 hints as to why this one is terrific and 746 00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:45,410 possibly be told by actual readers that 747 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:46,880 now it's not that good because it 748 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:48,290 doesn't make sense there and all that 749 00:32:51,549 --> 00:32:50,330 sort of thing so how would people find 750 00:32:53,049 --> 00:32:51,559 out about this online you've got a 751 00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:53,059 website as a place we and all gonna have 752 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:55,220 a look at this pricing Lee we do have a 753 00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:57,650 website is in being created at the 754 00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:02,240 moment but you can write to me you know 755 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:04,910 that old-fashioned sort of version of 756 00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:06,650 picking up a quill pen sharpening it 757 00:33:10,419 --> 00:33:08,510 dipping it in ink and let's face it if 758 00:33:12,370 --> 00:33:10,429 you're a writer you should at least be 759 00:33:15,610 --> 00:33:12,380 able to send a letter if you like you 760 00:33:20,010 --> 00:33:15,620 can write to me at local post office box 761 00:33:23,740 --> 00:33:20,020 for 15 to bexley north New South Wales 762 00:33:25,390 --> 00:33:23,750 2207 there will be a website up and 763 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:25,400 running shortly that'll be loaded with 764 00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:28,130 stuff that you can download about it so 765 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:30,110 put pen to paper find out more about it 766 00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:32,570 go along and become a better writer or 767 00:33:37,299 --> 00:33:34,160 at least be exposed to people who want 768 00:33:58,990 --> 00:33:37,309 to but that's a person enlightenment 769 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:01,190 thank you for listening to the skeptic 770 00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:02,250 zone well it's still a hot afternoon 771 00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:05,760 here in Malibu South Australia why the 772 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:08,250 the Racing crew and I have been in South 773 00:34:11,780 --> 00:34:10,169 Australia for this event we've been 774 00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:11,790 staying at a wonderful place called Lynn 775 00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,580 doc hill in the barossa valley now I 776 00:34:18,619 --> 00:34:16,800 don't run around normally on the skeptic 777 00:34:20,899 --> 00:34:18,629 zone promoting things and plugging 778 00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:20,909 things that aren't really do with 779 00:34:27,409 --> 00:34:24,030 skepticism sometimes but I must say that 780 00:34:29,810 --> 00:34:27,419 people at Linda Hill were wonderful 781 00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:29,820 hosts and looked after us very well 782 00:34:34,190 --> 00:34:31,950 indeed Lynn doc hill in the barossa 783 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:34,200 valley and it's my first trip my first 784 00:34:40,339 --> 00:34:36,330 visit to the Barossa Valley a very 785 00:34:42,859 --> 00:34:40,349 famous wine centre wine area in 786 00:34:45,710 --> 00:34:42,869 Australia and it's just been a really 787 00:34:48,109 --> 00:34:45,720 wonderful wonderful experience to visit 788 00:34:50,899 --> 00:34:48,119 the area Thank You Linda hill for 789 00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:50,909 looking after us coming up on next 790 00:34:55,730 --> 00:34:54,480 week's show I have no idea that's one of 791 00:34:57,980 --> 00:34:55,740 the joys about doing the skeptics own 792 00:35:01,640 --> 00:34:57,990 folks I just sometimes I have no idea i 793 00:35:04,099 --> 00:35:01,650 think more and more runs to give with a 794 00:35:06,859 --> 00:35:04,109 grain of salt I think there are still a 795 00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:06,869 few more interviews to go from his visit 796 00:35:12,980 --> 00:35:10,440 to QED and speaking of QED and people I 797 00:35:15,470 --> 00:35:12,990 meet in QED of course the wonderful news 798 00:35:18,859 --> 00:35:15,480 is Michael Marshall who I met at that 799 00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:18,869 QED a good friend of mine is coming over 800 00:35:23,329 --> 00:35:21,030 for the Australian skeptics national 801 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:23,339 convention at the end of november the 802 00:35:30,620 --> 00:35:25,650 lineup is looking so good the tickets 803 00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:30,630 are selling very well indeed wwc bacame 804 00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:33,030 you for all your Australian skeptics 805 00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:35,609 information and information about the 806 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:37,710 upcoming convention looking forward to 807 00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:40,290 that and just on a personal note this is 808 00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:45,390 not the last week that I am president of 809 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:46,950 Australian skeptics I've decided to I 810 00:35:50,990 --> 00:35:48,570 take a bit of a backseat for a little 811 00:35:52,339 --> 00:35:51,000 while that's alright that's fine i'm 812 00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:52,349 looking forward to that i'm still going 813 00:35:57,740 --> 00:35:53,880 to be very active of course but i just 814 00:36:00,940 --> 00:35:57,750 won't be the president oh well good luck 815 00:36:03,740 --> 00:36:00,950 to the next one but for now from 816 00:36:09,050 --> 00:36:03,750 beautiful Malala in South Australia this 817 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:11,460 you've been listening to the skeptic 818 00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:16,450 zone visit our website at www skeptics